Basic diagramming from a 'Newbie" :)

[chrisandvivianne]

We're just starting so diagramming is new to us.....

How do I know when to use the '-->', '=', or ':'? in my diagram?

Do you use the same labeling as the diagramming book you have recommended in your Homer book?

[Carolyn]

There are many diagramming conventions.

The grammar book recommended in Homer is Harvey's Elementary Grammar. The diagramming conventions use there were very limited by the typesetting optional available to the printer of the time, and we do not use his conventions.

We try to be consistent throughout our books.
--> is used with a transitive verb. It's the same as | (stopping at the horizontal line). The action of the verb is moving forwards to what comes next.
= is used with a linking verb. It's the same as a : or a \ (which is meant to 'lean' back to the subject. The equals sign denotes that the subject is being linked to what follows.

It's much much MUCH more important to understand the structure of the sentence than it is to copy our conventions exactly.

Carolyn

[Lene Mahler Jaqua]

I wanted to add, that if you start with Aesop B in our series, we go through the diagramming 'jungle' step by step and make it easy for you and your student to learn diagramming as you work with our books.

Though we do not use all of Harvey's conventions, our conventions are very similar.

Lene

[Heidi]

I'm truly enjoying CW Aesop & Homer for the older beginner. The philosophy and the exercises are keeping us engaged and motivated. And I love seeing what the kids write from the models!

At this point I'm depending heavily on the I.G. to get me through the diagramming assignments with my class of 8 students. I'm wondering if you can help me ... on page 28 of the I.G. I'm confused by the last two sentence examples:

In the core manual, compound sentences are diagrammed with the conjunction written first and then the two clauses branching off horizontally to the right, one above the other. In the I.G. (second sentence from bottom on p. 28) the compound sentence is diagrammed in a different way that is confusing to me because of where the conjunction attaches to each clause. Does the placement matter?

Regarding the last sentence on page 28, I'm confused about the two separate horizontal lines. Why is Xenophon, written above on a separate line, rather than on the same line with the the rest of the sentence? And is "(you)" even needed in the diagram when the subject "Xenophon" is explicitly stated in the sentence?

Excuse me if these are silly questions; I never learned diagramming in school, so this is all new.

Thank you so much for any help you can offer.

Heidi

[Carolyn]

Good questions!

First, what to do when there are two independent clauses joined by conjunctions. The idea is to show that the clauses are joined. The Homer Core book does do it differently, as you say. The more typical method is show in the IG. The clauses are connected, at the verbs, by a conjunction which goes on a 'stair step'. Subordinate conjunctions such as 'when', etc, would go on a diagonal line, often dotted.

In the last sentence, 'Xenephon' is being used to address Xenophon. As such, it's not the subject. There's a difference between "Mary, bake a cake" and "Mary bakes a cake". One is a direction (imperative sentence) and the other is a statement (declarative sentence). 'Xenophon' sort of floats above the sentence as an independent element. The sentence is complete without it (Lead your men!). The verb is imperative, and has an understood subject of you - so that goes in parentheses. We know that it's really Xenophon, of course, because that's who is being spoken to.

Does that help? If not, keep asking!

Carolyn

[Heidi]

Yes, that helps. Thank you for the prompt and thorough response!

Regarding the compound sentences, is the I.G. method preferable and somehow better for students to learn that method vs. the core's way of diagramming independent clauses?

Visually, I prefer the way you diagram compound sentences in the core. They look neat and orderly, and I think they're more fun to draw! But I don't want to teach the students something that is not best in the long run.

Thank you, Carolyn, for your willingness to take questions!

Heidi

[Carolyn]

The purpose of diagramming (at least in our eyes) is to get a good handle on how the various parts of the sentences fit together. As such, it's hard to say what's 'best'. The version in the IG is the one shown in most diagramming resources, though, so it will stand your students in good common stead with others.