Remind me of the importance of grammar...

[Tammy]

I am wondering if all this grammar is necessary!

See, I am thinking again, LOL

My husband is a GREAT writer...but isn't up to snuff on grammar and says all that studying grammar isn't remembered. I am also amazed how many different programs call things by different names!

So how much grammar is enough....because I know you all are going to tell me GRAMMAR IS IMPORTANT! When are you finished studying grammar?

Tammy

[Martha]

Tammy,

I'd say "never"! Of course, in the real world there will come a time when you can say that your students have progressed with grammar studies to the point that they are ready for logic and rhetoric. For the sake of time and sanity it will probably be necessary to move on to emphasize logic and rhetoric over grammar.

How much is enough? It depends on your goals. As a gratudate of public schools, and a "State U", I can tell you that it is possible to do very well on a little grammar, a lot of reading, and practice, practice, practice with writing.

As a parent who is attempting neo- classical education, I suggest you make grammar a priority and do as much as you can at the fastest rate your children are able to absorb the knowledge. The goals of learning grammar are more than just memorizing the parts of speech, distinguishing form from function of the elements of a sentence, and knowing how to punctuate phrases and clauses. The discipline required to do these things will be immensely helpful for later work in the trivium, and in learning to think and act in a systematic fashion, as well as the ability to see useful connections between what may seem, on the surface, to be unrelated ideas. Modern theories of education, whether intentionally or not, encourage us to think of subjects as items on a checklist to be ticked off and then forgotten. Classical ways of thinking about education are more about laying good foundations and building on them.

Something that has always interested me is the ability of people who have received a classical education to self-educate in a new field thouroughly and quiclkly. It can be hard to get past the "old" look of classical methods to see that they are a good fit for our rapidly changing information society. Classical education, even when it retains the trivium and quadrivium as its core can be modified as needed.

The best corrective I've found to the multiple terminologies confusion is to use Harvey's grammar, and to study Latin. If you are suffering burnout from all that grammar, do visit Prof. Einarsson's website. Reading through that can be a whole self-ed course in English, with some things thrown in for sheer delight.

www.artsci.gmcc.ab.ca/people/einarssonb/

Martha, who is convinced that there is a cause/effect relationship between washing windows and rain.

[Tracy Gustilo]

Ditto everything, Martha. Well said. Thanks!

Hang in here, Tammy. Keep plugging away. Keep thinking. =D

Tracy

[Eileen]

I emailed Lene with this question and she sent me here for answers! Hope you can help.

Both of my children have had Shurley Grammar.ds for 3rd grade and ds
> for 3rd and 4th. I am debating what to do for next year concerning
> grammar instruction. How much does your program offer in this regard?
> My son is going into 7th and really has no problem with
> sentence/paragraph structure. He is working through The Latin Road to
> English Grammar as his Latin program which has reinforced his grammar
> instruction thus far. My daughter worked through Level 3 Shurley
> Grammar and did fine. Would I need to supplement your program with
> more SG? I love the integrated approach your program seems to offer
> and am wondering if I need to add anything to it.

[Lene]

Hi Eileen,

(Incidentally, I am on line using the wireless router I was working on all day, and it works, so let me give your question a few minute's attention before I put my youngest to bed).

Our program, Classical Writing -Aesop, is self contained, all the grammar you need for Aesop is in the book. It is basic grammar, it spends a lot of time familiarizing the kids with the 8 parts of speech, recognizing them in the weekly models they analyze.

Our next program Classical Writing - Poetry, which is coming out really soon, is referring to grammar learned elsewhere. The text we recommend is Harvey's Elementary Grammar. Your child will need to know the 8 parts of speech as taught in Aesop and have a beginning understanding of how those parts of speech are used in writing, when attempting Classical Writing -Poetry, however, almost everything needed to do the poetry volume, is also contained in the text, we only recommend that the student of poetry is beginning a formal study in grammar.

Classical Writing - Homer, the formal follow up book to Aesop, is going to be taught concurrently with Harvey's Elementary ...that is we will develop lessons in Homer, where we reference a corresponding theory lesson to be taught from Harvey. From Homer and on we will reference concurrent theory skills in grammar, logic, and rhetoric to be taught and learned to master the material for application in writing projects.

Now, you can choose any grammar text you want to use, they will all cover the 8 parts of speech. You probably won't find the need for the specific texts we advocate till we get to syntax, which will be the volume after Homer. Syntax is not covered carefully in modern texts.

Also, you can start Aesop, as I said, with nothing else in terms of preparation. If your 7th grader has already done a lot of grammar, you may well be able to do Homer and Poetry without any preparation too. In the event you should need to pull in some theory,just do so. The programs are very flexible with skill levels and arrangements where you can tailor make the schedule to your own kid's needs, so when you need something, just do it.

Well, this is enough rambling from me, off to get the kid to bed and then some last minute touch ups on my incompetent work as an IT person today.

Good to see you here on the board,

Lene