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Post by Tammy on Mar 27, 2003 21:29:28 GMT -5
Ok...now that I have tried to get my feet wet with this...I can see in order to use the 'grammar' with the model....I need more grammar education, LOL.
I had my son pick out all the prepositional phrases in the first model. I felt like a true idiot! I wasn't sure if some of them were prepositional phrases or not.
I can see I will probably not be able to use the models for grammar instruction, not unless Tracy will fork over an answer key, LOL!!!!!!
Tammy : (
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Post by Tracy Gustilo on Mar 28, 2003 7:35:04 GMT -5
Hi Tammy,
Yes, it does get tricky with these real sentences, doesn't it? You are running right smack into the "culture shock" of switching from textbook sentences used for grammar instruction to "real" sentences used for same. Since we do ultimately want to be able to apply our grammar skills to real sentences, it is worth persevering! =)
May I make a couple suggestions?
First, do not try to find "all" of a given part of speech. See if your son can pick out "representative examples". What we're after at this point is general familiarity and the ability to recognize the obvious ones. See CW-Aesop p. 33.
Second, try the other way around. What I have been doing a lot with my own two Aesop students lately is to pick out 10-12 words in the model and have them identify them. I make sure to pick ones I know! =)
There are many words that can function as more than one part of speech. My son asked me just yesterday what "land" was. I told him it could be a noun (meaning "earth" or "territory") or it could be a verb (as in, "land" an airplane). You have to use the context to help. There are several words that can function as either a preposition or an adverb or a conjunction. For example (from Rod & Staff English Handbook, p. 84): The girls walked AROUND (prep) the house. The girls walked AROUND (adv) for a while. Or: The sun came out AFTER (prep) the storm. AFTER (sub conj -> adv clause) the storm subsided, the sun came out. "To" can be a preposition or an indicator of an infinitive: He drove TO (prep) town. He chose TO (inf) drive rather than TO (inf) walk.
Also, it is possible for more than one part of speech to overlap in a single word or phrase -- at one and the same time! Verbals are notorious examples of that. Verbals have properties of both verbs and other parts of speech (nouns, adjectives, adverbs). Similarly, all prepositional phrases will act as either adverbial or adjectival modifiers. That is, the phrase itself will modify either a noun or a verb (or an adjective or another adverb). The phrase "acts like" an adjective or an adverb.
You can use real sentences, Tammy, but it will take some work, that's true. It's never too late to beef up your own grammar skills.
Re: answer keys. Tell you what. If you will post your specific grammar questions here, Lene and I (and other folks who hang out here, too!) will do our best to answer them. However, please know that we do not have all the answers either! There are many grammar questions that are still simply beyond us, and there are some -- I suspect -- which do not have answers. (At least not any "happy" ones. <g>)
Hang in there! Sounds like you're doing great.
Tracy
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Post by Tammy on Mar 28, 2003 8:25:49 GMT -5
Thanks Tracy! I AM going to do this and learn from it LOL. I think this is the ultimate goal....using REAL sentences. Here are the ones I am having problems with....
These are from Aesop 1 "The Hare and the Tortoise".
"I could dance round you all the way."
Is 'round you' a prep phrase? I hope 'all the way' is too.
The Hare daarted almost out of sight at once, but soon stopped and, to show his contemp for the Tortoise, lay down to have a nap.
Prep phrases 'of sight' and 'at once'? I guess 'to show' will be an infinitive? "For the tortoise" prep phrase?
One more, LOL
The Tortoise plodded on and plodded on, and when the Hare awoke from his nap, he saw the Tortoise just near the winning post and could not run up in time to save the race.
Prep. phrases:
"from his nap",
"near the winning post"?
"in time"
"to save" would this be an infinitive?
Ok that is all, LOL! What R&S handbook are you referring? I received my samples of R&S yesterday! They do not have samples of anything over 5th grade...and I am sure I would need something over 5th! I did order the samples for 3rd, 4th, and 5th to take a look. I like what I see.
I also have the Stewart English (the first one whatever that is) and think I will take another look at it!
I now see how most grammar books give such generic sentences!
Thanks for your help, Tracy....I really do appreciate it!
Tammy
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Post by Tracy Gustilo on Mar 28, 2003 12:56:26 GMT -5
Hi Tammy, way to go!
"I could dance round you all the way."
Is 'round you' a prep phrase? I hope 'all the way' is too.
>> Yes, I believe 'round you' is a prepositional phrase. 'Round' is probably short for 'around'. 'All the way' is not. 'Way' would be adverbial, I think, telling where, and 'all' modifies 'way'. Consider: I could dance the whole way.
The Hare darted almost out of sight at once, but soon stopped and, to show his contemp for the Tortoise, lay down to have a nap.
Prep phrases 'of sight' and 'at once'? I guess 'to show' will be an infinitive? "For the tortoise" prep phrase?
>> Yes. You can always tell the infinitive by the verb coming immediately after it (unless, that is, the author "splits his infinitives" which is, technically, a grammatical error -- though people tend to, all the time, do it). (<-- Did you catch that? <grin>)
>> (I am a tad worried about 'at once'. I.e. 'once' is usually an adverb and can stand on its own to modify the verb; it may simply be modified by 'at' here. Also, the object of the preposition is usually a noun, which can be indicated by an article. But we don't say: 'at the once'. On the other hand, modifiers can usually be dropped without doing damage to the meaning. But in this case, it doesn't mean quite the same thing to say: The Hare darted almost out of sight once. So I'm not sure about this one. In any case, do you see how it is the thinking process that counts? Ah! I just checked my dictionary for 'once'. In THIS single case, once IS used as a noun. Also, 'at' is always a preposition. So yes, it is indeed a prepositional phrase here.)
The Tortoise plodded on and plodded on, and when the Hare awoke from his nap, he saw the Tortoise just near the winning post and could not run up in time to save the race.
Prep. phrases:
"from his nap",
"near the winning post"?
"in time"
"to save" would this be an infinitive?
>> Yes.
What R&S handbook are you referring?
>> Rod and Staff has an English Handbook, which is a reference work covering grammar, cap, punct, writing, etc. Lots of helpful diagramming and advanced grammar. Worth a buy IMO.
Tracy
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Post by Tammy on Mar 28, 2003 13:31:59 GMT -5
I can sure see how this sort of thing really gets those wheels turning, LOL. I like trying to figure these things out.....but only if I know I got the right answer!
So I guess I only missed one..."all the way".
As for the R&S Handbook....I assume it is the same one listed under their 8th grade books "English Handbook $15.00"? Their code number is "12828".
Thanks for all the help.....I think this will be a good 'lesson' in itself!
Tammy
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