Antiquated terminology?

[Molly]

Is the Harvey's grammar terminology often antiquated? Many of the definitions we recognize as definitions we've learned with different grammar terminology. For example, the four types of sentences in Harvey's are: declarative, interrogative, imperative, and exclamatory (which, by the way, is spelled incorrectly in lesson 4!) But my children have learned these as statements, questions, commands and exclamations.

So, my question is if it is important to memorize the Harvey's terminology, or if we can refer to them by their updated names, and have the children copy the easier names in their copybooks.

Also, is an "objective element" (lesson 16) the same thing as a direct object? I downloaded the Harvey's lessons (thank you!) and I noticed that in the second week you are asking us to diagram/note the direct object, but Harvey's never mentions a direct object. I assume it is the same thing, but I wanted to make sure!

[Lene]

Is the Harvey's grammar terminology often antiquated? Many of the definitions we recognize as definitions we've learned with different grammar terminology. For example, the four types of sentences in Harvey's are: declarative, interrogative, imperative, and exclamatory (which, by the way, is spelled incorrectly in lesson 4!) But my children have learned these as statements, questions, commands and exclamations. >>>


You're right... EXLAMAORY What a typo!!!

In the particular case of the 4 types of sentences, Harvey's is more technical and correct, AND (I think) more universal in terms of its labels.

Declarative sentences are statements so we are talking about the same thing, but if you're looking for a type of sentence, you're looking for an adjective to put in front of the word, sentence, so declarative, interrogative, exclamatory and imperative makes more sense to me. Those words have Latin roots and if your student is studying Latin, these words will quickly come to carry a lot of meaning for him.

Furthermore, when your student gets into modes of verbs and pronouns, the terminology, at least in terms of knowing what interrogative and imperative means will be most important.

I saw a discussion of this on another list. It is my opinion that the simplifications of the sentence type are meant as a gentle introduction to grammar for young students, labeling the sentences with familiar words which are easy to relate to. '

My preference would be to stick with Harvey's terminology, but to add, for the sake of the student, that declarative sentences refer to "statements", interrogative sentences are "questions" and so forth so that the student is grounded in an understanding of this new terminology.

So to sum up in a few words... no, I don't think Harvey's is antiquated. I think he is technically very precise and that learning those words will be an asset to the student later.

Once you get into logic, your student will run into a host of new words also. Expanding the student's vocabulary with words that will serve him later is always a good idea.


>>Also, is an "objective element" (lesson 16) the same thing as a direct object? I downloaded the Harvey's lessons (thank you!) and I noticed that in the second week you are asking us to diagram/note the direct object, but Harvey's never mentions a direct object. I assume it is the same thing, but I wanted to make sure! >>

Yes ojbective element and object Harvey's, you might notice as you move along farther does not contain INDIRECT OBJECT which is a newer "invention" which came about because we in language started omitting the prepositions....

f.e.x.

He gave me the book

He gave (to) me the book.

HTH,
Lene

[Molly]

Thank you for your reply. Like most publicly schooled students, I had formal grammar training in high school --where I actually loved diagramming sentences, but never did understand WHY we did it. And it's been quite a while since high school and I didn't remember the terminology. And although I have a college degree, I never had to take any more grammar classes so I didn't!

I thought it might be best to be teaching this terminology, but I was curious since we learned simpler terminology in our other grammar courses (not that they've been all that intense yet, my oldest is just starting 5th grade.) And yes, we're studying Latin, but we haven't run across these particular Latin terms - yet! So we'll learn the Harvey's terminology and just explain how it relates to what we learned before.

One last question -
Do your children have a routine with Harvey's? I read on one of the other posts that they only do grammar on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Is there a certain time they do grammar or amount?

Thanks,
Molly

[Lene Mahler Jaqua]

Go to www.classicalco-op.com and click on Harvey Grammar Summer Course to see the lesson plans I developed for Harvey's. They are made based on how I taught Harvey's with my own kids.

HTH, Lene