wjbh
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Post by wjbh on Jul 18, 2008 16:03:19 GMT -5
Hi,
We are having some confusion trying to figure out if the rhyme scheme is applied to each stanza or if it is continued throughout the poem.
For example -
Where Go the Boats on page 92 of the Poetry for Beginners core book lists stanza one with abab and then stanza two repeats abab and stanza three is abcb, etc....
But, in the TE for Poetry for Beginners on page 44 it shows the rhyme scheme for Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star on page 46 to be aabb ccdd eeff
It looks to us like Where Go the Boats is not carrying the pattern over from stanza to stanza but Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star is carrying the pattern through the entire poem.
Thanks, Wendy
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Post by Lene Mahler Jaqua on Jul 18, 2008 19:49:57 GMT -5
Wendy, In "Where go the Boats?", you have the following stanzas. DARK brown is the river. Golden is the sand. It flows along for ever, With trees on either hand. Green leaves a-floating, 5 Castles of the foam, Boats of mine a-boating— Where will all come home? On goes the river And out past the mill, 10 Away down the valley, Away down the hill. Away down the river, A hundred miles or more, Other little children 15 Shall bring my boats ashore
The rhyme scheme for that poem [glow=red,2,300]'in general'[/glow] is abcb because the first and the third line do not rhyme, excepting that there is a slight question about stanza 1. Does "river" rhyme with "ever"? If it does then the scheme for that stanza is abab. I am not sure whether it does or not, but when we constructed the answer key the consensus was that it did. It is a slight twist in vowel sound, 'e' versus 'i' and in modern American speech where so many vowel sounds merge into that universal sound of 'uh', almost, perhaps we can say it rhymes. At worst it is a false rhyme. But the over-all scheme of the poem, looking at all the other stanzas, certainly one gets the impression that RLS's intention was for an abcb poem. Poetry is regular, but not completely regular. This sort of kink in the armor will be common through all your poetry studies in regards to both rhyme scheme and also meter. Does that answer your question?
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wjbh
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Posts: 13
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Post by wjbh on Jul 19, 2008 6:49:22 GMT -5
Lene, Thanks for your reply. I am having some trouble formulating the correct question! We are trying to figure out why in one poem you see a repeat of starting over with "a" for the new rhyming word at the beginning of the second stanza but in the other poem you see the rhyme scheme turn into "c" for the new word at the beginning of the second stanza. Does it have something to do with couplets? It is really a question about how to choose the "letter" to establish the rhyme scheme pattern. Does that make any sense ? For example, Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star is like this: star a are a high b sky b gone c upon c light d night d dark e spark e go f so f Why not like this?: star a are a high b sky b gone a upon a light b night b dark a spark a go b so b Now, Where Go the Boats does start over with the "a" at the beginning of each the remaining stanza's: river a sand b forever a hand b starts at "a" again: a-floating a foam b a-boating a home b starts at "a" again: river a mill b valley c hill b starts at "a" again: river a more b children c ashore b We were wondering how to know when to proceed into the stanzas following the first stanza with the letters c, d, e, f, g, etc.....instead of just starting over at the beginning of each new stanza with the "a". Thanks, Wendy
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Post by Carolyn on Jul 19, 2008 8:18:32 GMT -5
I think it's personal preference whether you 'reset' the rhyme at the end of each stanza, or continue on. When the poem will be imitated, it can be easier on the imitator if things aren't 'reset' so that it's very clear there is no need to have all the stanzas rhyme. For example, with Twinkle, a student might think if everything is AABB, then every single stanza needs to rhyme with every other stanza. It doesn't, of course, since each new stanza can have a different A and B ... but that is clearer if the poem is marked AABB CCDD.
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Post by Lene Mahler Jaqua on Jul 19, 2008 18:33:45 GMT -5
Carolyn is right, I just want to add that it has to do with the purpose for which you analyze the rhymescheme too. If you're merely looking at Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star and wondering what the rhyme scheme is, then the short answer is AABB + AA (for the chorus) [and technically it's always capital letters] BUT if you're analyzing a whole poem including every single stanza for rhymes, wanting to know how many different types there are, you would go The outlook wasn't brilliant for the Mudville nine that day; A The score stood four to two, with but one inning more to play, A And then when Cooney died at first, and Barrows did the same, B A pall-like silence fell upon the patrons of the game. B
A straggling few got up to go in deep despair. The rest C Clung to that hope which springs eternal in the human breast; C They thought, "If only Casey could but get a whack at that — D We'd put up even money now, with Casey at the bat." D
But Flynn preceded Casey, as did also Jimmy Blake, E And the former was a hoodoo, while the latter was a cake; E So upon that stricken multitude grim melancholy sat; D For there seemed but little chance of Casey getting to the bat. D
But Flynn let drive a single, to the wonderment of all, F And Blake, the much despised, tore the cover off the ball; F And when the dust had lifted, and men saw what had occurred, G There was Jimmy safe at second and Flynn a-hugging third. G
Then from five thousand throats and more there rose a lusty yell; H It rumbled through the valley, it rattled in the dell; H It pounded on the mountain and recoiled upon the flat, D For Casey, mighty Casey, was advancing to the bat. DBut you see, here the idea is that the rhyming sound for 'bat' shows up a lot (such as the sound 'star' would show up a lot in 'Twinkle') and so we're looking at the sounds themselves as well as at the scheme for rhyming AABB and therefore we are assigning an individual letter to each sound with the idea that we want to identify repeat sounds. Another example is Dante's Inferno where we have the rhyme scheme ABA BCB CDC DED EFE FGF etc. and there we're showing the the rhyme of the next stanza is couched between the rhymes of the previous stanza. The only way we can do that is to show the rhyme scheme running down the alphabetical list of letters. Does this make sense? Lene
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wjbh
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Post by wjbh on Jul 20, 2008 15:04:18 GMT -5
Thank you Lene and Carolyn! Yes, your explanation does make sense! Thanks for the help!
Wendy~
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