Placement for two kids

[alanaincanada]

I am struggling terribly with this. I have an eleven year old boy who is not being challenged any more by Aesop A. (I have been slow getting started and sporadic in using it). My eight year old girl is enjoying it immensely.

We started in the fall and we are now on Week 12.

However, we're supposed to be finished A and starting Aesop B so we can begin Homer this summer.


I'm wondering if we should just skip weeks 13-18 in Aesop A and go straight to B--or perhaps do every other week?

What should I do?

I'm afraid I am really struggling with this program and I'm not sure why.

Thanks for any help.
(Is there any way I can tell the forum to send replies to my inbox? That would be very helpful!)

[Lene Mahler Jaqua]

11 years old is too old for Aesop A. 8 years and 9 too is more like it, so it's no wonder your 11 year old is bored.

Most kids are 11 in 5th grade and work in Homer A which is more challenging both for the writing projects and for the grammar and literature it teaches.

If I were you, I would keep the 8 year old where she is, and get Homer A for the 11 year old. I know the ideal is to keep kids together in teaching, but a three year age gap is a lot to ask that of. My two first kids were 3 years apart and it wasn't till the younger was in junior high and the older in high school that I was able to do much with both as a pair (other than reading aloud).

This may not be what you wanted to hear, but I really think even Aesop B may be too easy, comparatively speaking, for an 11 year old.

Lene

[alanaincanada]

Thank you so much, Lene.

It is difficult, sometimes, to tease out exactly what the problems may be.

The kids do almost everything together: History, Bible, Science, Geography and Latin are fine. They do their own thing for Grammar and Math. Then the older has more to do with Logic and writing outlines and summaries.

Up until now I have found that it has worked very well--she's a bit precocious and he's been a bit slow. But I'm noticing that more and more he isn't taking as long as she does to complete the Latin and Geography worksheets, for example. So, perhaps he is maturing.

You're right--I didn't want to hear it--but it's OK. I'd rather have them both working to their full capacity and engaged with what they're doing than dragging them through it day after day.

We didn't even get to re-writing our drafts today because I honestly did not know how to motivate my son to improve his draft. Lene--it is four sentences--and includes one direct quotation. I could make him change "said" --and then pull teeth.

I will order Homer and begin to get familiar with it--any suggrestions about what we can do while that happens? It could be a month or more, depending on shipping.

Thanks again.

[Lene Mahler Jaqua]

My guess is you may be looking at 10-14 days, but then again, given that my son's one hearing aid was Fed Ex'ed last Monday and still hasn't arrived, who knows??

But while you're waiting, there is much you can do to motivate and specifically to teach him how to do the edits to each draft.

Usually lack of motivation is a combination of the natural laziness that all of us have and the fear of failure. When I am afraid of a task, it is easier for me to avoid it and to keep telling myself that I could do it if I really bothered, than it is to RISK doing it and failing. Nobody wants to fail... so we'd rather not try. It's human!!

Writing is an area where so many of us are clueless on where or how to begin, it's safer not to. Writing can so easily become an assignment we can see no end to, which makes it discouraging too.

You need to help him gather his energy to WANT to do this task because

1. you know he can do it
2. you will set specific goals and time limits so the task of writing doesn't seem endless to him. He needs to know he is done when he is done so he feels a sense of control.

I have the following thoughts [and forgive me if I am totally off in diagnosing the issue.. I have been ... ahem... wrong before]:

0. Is he writing by hand or typing on the computer? (If by hand, get him on the computer [for essays only] and he is more likely to want to write more.)

1. Make it clear before the first draft is even turned in that this essay will take at least two rewrites in addition to the first one. Not long edits... but edits nonetheless. EVERYTHING he writes will need editing. It's a fact of life for all of us. I just wrote a 400 page book... edits are endless, and even when you think you found all the errors, you didn't! So let him know this is something we all do, even if we don't always enjoy it.

2. Start next week (tomorrow, Monday), not with a new essay but with rewriting last week's essay. Tell him you are training him in editing drafts. Tell him, even Shakespeare had to edit his drafts. Tell him that this week (and perhaps the next two weeks) you are just going to do the writing THREE days. And all he has to do is edit what he already wrote. AND it's easy as pie when you know how, and you are going to show him!!!!

3. DAY ONE -- Show him your timer, set it to beep after 20 minutes. When 20 minutes are up, he is done. For the first editing session work on adding sentences. Sit down with him, go through ONE sentence at a time and double the essay (if you can). That is, for each sentence, help him improve it and add detail with a second sentence. [See macro editing in Aesop for more suggestions]. Your first goal is to make sure the story is done right, if it is, you're adding interesting details. Give him the freedom to set the story in outer space, if that helps, or any setting he wants... you don't have to stay with the original, except in spirit. Let him get a bit silly. It may motivate, give him a sense of control and accomplishment.

Do not correct spelling or any grammar errors this round, you're working on content and he needs mistakes to work on for the next day.

DO NOT leave him during this session, but make sure he is doing the typing/writing. Quit before you have exasperated him. Unless of course he is exasperated to start with. [If so write me back].

• 4. DAY TWO -- 20 minutes again, with a timer. For the second editing session, work on word choices, word variation, spelling and end punctuation sort of stuff (Look through the micro editing list in Aesop). Start him off by reading each sentence aloud. Mark the changes you want him to make, (spellos, inane repetitions, or other errors) and leave him to make the changes himself.
  
  5. DAY THREE -- [Set the timer for 20 mins again, and be sure to be done way before it beeps.] For the third and final editing session, have him read the whole story aloud to you in one uninterrupted flow. Ask him if anything sounds funny or wrong or if there are any changes to be made. Chances are that there are not. If there is pick one minor thing, nothing else. Then print... give him mega kudos and he is done.
  
  That's what I would do, but... I would only leave him on DAY TWO and DAY THREE if he seems to know what he needs to do. Do not leave him if you're leaving with the sense that he will just get frustrated and will get nothing done until you come back. We as moms set ourselves up for failure if we leave a hs kid, KNOWING that he will not get the work done, KNOWING that there is discipline and/or failure in stock for that kid. Keep positive, and if he isn't, you can't make him... so don't try. You still can be positive, matter of factly, practical, and insistent on the short times and the short assignments you ask of him in terms of editing. He can do it!!! And he can do it well too!!
  
  If needed, spread this advice over several weeks and teach him more slowly to work alone. He may need a whole two weeks where you sit with him and cover 2 or 3 old essays and edit them to improve them before he is more independent. THAT is OK. Your end goal is for him to work alone. Editing is AS important as writing, so you're not wasting your time doing this. You are helping him develop good habits.
  
  Second to last comment... you said his sister was so brilliant And I am sure she is, but that is all the more reason to separate them. WHO wants to live in the shadow of a younger female sibling? That is another reason I often see older boys who don't want to put in too much effort. Their younger sisters are little "Mary Poppin'ses" [Practically Perfect In Every Way]. Well, what boy can possibly compete with that?? ;D And worse yet, what boy wants to??
  
  One last comment [and sorry for being so long-winded, this is a hobby horse of mine]. I have graduated one hs kid and have two in high school. If there is any area where I wronged my oldest kid it was in throwing things at him and assuming that just because he understood the material and had the brains to do it, he also had the motivation and the desire to follow through on it. [And he also had a Mary Poppins younger sister who loved to write]. TEACHING a kid [especially a boy] to be motivated is just as important as teaching him to add or spell or read. Motivation is everything in education. We all know scores of people who claim that they 'could have' accomplished this or that, but didn't... "could have" is worth nothing... and the only thing I can think of that motivates positively is when mom comes alongside and says "We can do this together, let me show you how. It isn't hard. Here is a method". Once you open up that avenue of understanding and compassion, he is more likely to 'melt' into interest and slowly take up the task on his own. Once you have convinced him that he can not only do it, he can do it really well, and you're pleased with him doing it... motivation does grow... little by little.
  
  Lene
  

[alanaincanada]

Lene, thank you so much!

I'm overwhelmed by your generosity. You could not have typed a better response that would have held my hand any more thoroughly!
I appreciate the encouragement so much. And thanks for the 20 minute time limit, too.

[Tonya]

I am planning to start CW next school year. I our boys will be in second and fourth grades. Our second grader is already reading on a third grade (or higher) level, and seems to grasp grammar easily. Do you think that I would be able to combine the boys in Aesop A? If I can combine the boys and not have to teach two separate writing lessons, obviously that is what I would like to do .

Thank you so much for your input!
Tonya

[Carolyn]

You can certainly try combining your boys. I have my 13 yo girl and 12 yo son combined in CW studies. Some times I modify the assignments a little for them. Starting in Aesop A should be doable for both your boys.

[Tonya]

Thank you so much for the input, Carolyn. I think I may try combining them and see how it goes!

[morningglory]

Wow! I've been a guest or lurker on this board for a while, but when I read the above post by Lene, I had to register so that I could say, "Thank you!!!"

What fabulous help and advice for all of us with very capable but "slightly" unmotivated boys in our homeschools.

Thank you, again, Lene!
Jetta

[Lene Mahler Jaqua]

You're welcome, Jetta.

Thank God

Lene