Placing younger students & 9th & 10th graders

[Kim]

Hello,

I am very interested in doing Classical Writing Primers w/ my younger students (1st-4th) and Classical Writing w/ my 9th & 10th graders.

Okay...question time. My younger students are already doing a phonics/spelling program, will that interfere w/ doing Classical Writing? Also..they are only reading at 1st and 2nd grade levels so should I wait?

Regarding my older girls...9th & 10th, we have not done any formal writing and very little formal grammar. We are working through the Harvey's Grammar workbooks well...just for the Summer. I was going to put them in Analytical Grammar but they like doing the Harvey Grammar, we have the workbooks from Rudy Moore. I am having them do that to "fill in" or to give them a bit of a foundation before starting a formal writing/grammar program. I love the idea of my children doing narration, picture study etc...

Where do I start my older girls? I want to do the tutorial but can't afford to do so. I do not feel experienced enough to really grade their writing, grammar and writing are not my "thing", so to speak. I am going to struggle w/ them doing this or can they do a lot on their own?

Also...I want to start them at a pace that they will cover good ground in writing/grammar before they are done w/ high school, so..3 years for 1 and 4 for my younger daughter. I want them to learn to write essays and research papers.

Again..I am not good in this area so I am not sure Classical Writing is the way to go or not???

I had thought about IEW but it just doesn't seem to fit w/ us, he wants the parents to learn how to teach writing and I have 7 children. Writing is not something I am good at, as far as evaluating the writing etc...

Please advise!

Thank you very much,

Kim (homeschooling mom of 7)

[Lene Mahler Jaqua]

Kim,

Your Primer question is easy to answer. Yes, the Primers would only support and augment your phonics and spelling work and would be a good choice for your younger students.

For your older students your questions are not as easy to answer, really. It depends a lot on your students, their maturity, their initiative, and their ability to work alone.

Writing has to be taught. Whether you hire a tutor or teach them yourself, something is missing in writing when there is no instruction.

This is not to say that they cannot get somewhere on their own if they are motivated, follow written instructions and work at their essays. There is stuff to be learned that one can absorb alone. No doubt they will improve by self-study, but at some point writing instruction demands that essays get reviewed and sent back for improvements, that arguments are evaluated and discussed. Even the best writers need the help of colleagues to review their thoughts and expressions to ensure that what they put down is intelligible to persons other than themselves.

You may want to consider doing Classical Writing with some level of peer editing between your two girls (i.e. they evaluate each other's work) or trade essay grading with a homeschool mom friend and her students. At some point, however, your students need feedback from others and guidance in learning to form coherent thoughts in writing (apart from what they can pick up in a textbook on their own.)

If they have had no Classical Writing, they should start in Older Beginners and get as far as they can during those years, cutting out repetition where they have already mastered the concepts.
Does this help?
Lene

[Kim]

Hi,

Well..I replied to this earlier but do not see it, I will try to be brief in case it shows up..ha!

Is there a place to send in my older girls work? I would be willing to pay per paper? I just can't afford the $400 plus tutorial.

Also..w/ CW, is there something that would help me to evaluate their writing, knowing this is a weak area for me?

I had planned on them doing Notgrass History but am unsure if that would be duplicating something. They include History, Bible, English (Literature) and I know they are to write papers etc..


I understand writing needs to be taught, I do not want them to just "wing it" but...not sure who to have "grade it".

Thanks so much!

Kim

[greengables]

Hi Kim,

No, we do not provide evaluations at this point (other than as an optional extra with the tutorials) as we are all still home educating our own children and our plates are about as full as we can handle.

But the editing checklists for each writing project in the Student Workbooks are really quite complete and detailed, and I think you will find the editing process can be accomplished fairly easily. That was our whole purpose in creating them - to give teachers at home confidence in their ability to evaluate their students' writing and to help them improve.

I really don't know anything about the history curriculum you mention, so I can't comment on how it will integrate with Classical Writing. Sorry I'm not more help there.

Let me know if I can answer any more questions for you.

Kathy

[Kim]

Thank you both for your time! I think I will give it a shot and see if I can do the evaluating myself.

One more quick question, sorry! I want to make sure that the Primers are for younger students, reading at 1st grade level? I read somewhere not to start until they were reading and writing well but I am not sure which CW was being referred to...

I just don't want to start any of my kids to "hard" and have them struggle..if that makes sense!

Thanks so much for your time!

Kim

[Carolyn]

The primers are designed for students that have had about a year of phonics and are ready to copy down sentences.

The 'reading well' goes with Aesop.

Carolyn

[Kim]

Hi again,

What all would I need for 2 students, beginners, in 9th and 10th grade? I assume I would need Aesop, Homer, IG for Older Beginners and 2 student workbooks?

I have Harvey's Elementary Grammar, the Classical Writing Workbooks and an Answer Key...should I get your workbooks? If they really explain and help me to grade the work I want them!

Anything else I would need?

Thank you!

Kim Carr

[Kim]

Hi again,

I am trying to view samples on Lulu and am having no luck, can I view Aesop and the Harvey Workbooks somewhere?

Thanks!

Kim

[Kim]

Sorry again! If I start my 9th and 10th graders in the older beginners, I figured out what all I needed as you have it so nicely on your sight..I just needed to look , will they be able to complete CW by the end of 12th grade? Not sure how long each book typically takes. I just really do not want to skip around, I know your builds on each concept BUT..I do not want to start something, since we are getting started late, that they would be struggling to finish in time.

Please let me know...I am getting the Primers for my younger ones!

Thanks again!

Kim

[Lene Mahler Jaqua]

For two beginners in 9th and 10th grade, you need

1. 2 workbooks for Aesop and Homer for Older Beginners
2. 1 instructor's guide for Aesop and Homer for Older Beginners
3. Harvey's elementary grammar

If you have the Classical Writing Workbooks for Harvey, you have our books for Harvey.

I would get the answer key to the Harvey workbooks that we sell. It is indispensable in getting all the right answers and in getting the diagramming down pat.

Does that answer your questions?

Lene

[Lene Mahler Jaqua]

The samples for the workbooks are up on Lulu.

My experience is that those who cannot view them either have an outdated Adobe Acrobat reader, get a new one at www.adobe.com/ or your security settings are set such that you cannot open the file.

Lene

[Lene Mahler Jaqua]

Kim,

If your student does Aesop and Homer for Older Beginners, that is about 22 weeks of work, which you may be able to skip one or two of the early lessons.

Next your student would move into Diogenes Maxim and Chreia, again about 22 weeks or a little more per book: could be done in a school year.

After that your student would move into Herodotus, which is about a year's worth, and after that into Plutarch for those who have enough time (about 30 weeks of work).

A student that has completed Herodotus has completed a writing course comparable to (and more rigorous) than what most writing students would get in a public school setting. It should more than prepare a a student for college writing. We do have two more semester's worth of writing instruction for students that get that far, but Herodotus will provide an excellent foundation for those who don't have time to go any further before ending 12th grade.


Lene

[Kim]

Hi,

Thanks so much for the help! I have the Classic Curriculum Writing Workbooks through Mott Media, I do not believe these are your books right? I will get your books and the answer keys!

Thanks so much!!

Kim