|
Post by sssj30 on Oct 19, 2009 17:05:50 GMT -5
Hi,
We have been working through the Student Workbook for Older Beginners and have reached week 9, the Defeat of Cyrus. I am having a lot of trouble convincing my daughter that this selection is historical fiction rather than non fiction. We have gone back over the explanations of non-fiction vs. fiction with the section on historical fiction. I have tried to emphasize that the authors intent with historical fiction is to both "entertain and enlighten" where as some one who is writing history is much less concerned about the entertainment value of their work.
But . . . she is still not convinced. She wants an iron clad definition that she can use to distinguish between the two. I am reluctant to do this without some advice because I don't want to tell her something that will be challenged later in the other books in the classical writing series.
Hope this makes sense. I have been reading through the message boards to try to find answers to other questions, but this is what we are working on right now and I was hoping I might get a quicker response. Thanks, Sarah
|
|
|
Post by Lene Mahler Jaqua on Oct 20, 2009 12:47:11 GMT -5
There isn't an iron clad definition, so that isn't possible.
Every historian filters the information he chooses to record. Some of what we call source material for history is recorded by those who hated their enemies and their material, too, is skewed, even if it is one source out of perhaps only two about a certain event in medieval times.
Leave iron-clad and precise as adjectives that describe what you may be able to do in geometry, and help her see that some things are fuzzy.
Historical fiction is a relatively new phenomenon. I think Sir Walter Scott with his "Ivanhoe" was one of the first to attempt it. He took an era (1100s) and some historical events (return of Richard I to England after the crusades) and wove in his own characters Ivanhoe, Cedric, etc. But even so, even when Scott tries to be historical, he is often seen as inaccurate by modern day historians who have studied the attitudes and mannerisms of chivalric Europe and found that Scott was way too 'romantic' about the Saxon-Norman hatred. That sense of nationalism that Scott infuses in his novel is a product of the 19th century, not of the 12th.
The historian who is recording history in order to preserve an account of the events for posterity would be seen as the one writing the historical narrative which is not in any way 'fictionalized', but even he is filtering the story through what he happens to think is important, through his interpretation of the events, etc.
It's impossible to be iron-clad and precise about these things.
Lene
|
|
|
Post by Sarah on Oct 20, 2009 15:15:34 GMT -5
Okay, That is sort of what we discussed. We talked about this for well over an hour last evening. I tried to illustrate for her that everything is on a continuum: history - historical fiction, nonfiction - fiction, purpose of the author: education - entertain. We pulled out several things to compare: a selection from the History of Rome on the Gallic Wars, a translation of Caesar's Gallic Wars and a retelling of Caesar's Gallic War and discussed where each one falls on those scales. She still thinks The Defeat of Cyrus is nonfiction history, but I really think she gets it and is just being stubborn.
Actually we have this problem quite a lot. We will end up discussing a topic for half an hour or forty-five minutes and then we are pushed to finish the assignments. I am torn because I feel like the discussions are valuable, but she ends up stressed and pushed for time to finish everything.
|
|
|
Post by Lene Mahler Jaqua on Oct 20, 2009 17:58:58 GMT -5
I agree, Defeat of Cyrus is non-fiction history. It is a tale taken from Herodotus' Histories that has been simplified by the writer Guerber to be appropriate for a younger audience. It is an attempt to record history as it happened, in so far as Herodotus was 'objective'.
As for discussions, ask her what she wants to do so that she is responsible for budgeting her time in terms of how long she wants to take discussing stuff.
Lene
|
|
|
Post by sssj30 on Oct 20, 2009 18:58:44 GMT -5
Sorry. That was my mistake it says right here in my teacher's edition that, "This model is non-fiction. It is a historical narrative about the Greek-Persian Wars." I don't know how we got convinced that the teacher's edition said historical fiction; we work with all three books open and in front of us and that sometimes is confusing. We did enjoy the discussion though.
|
|